Comments on: BASE, SINGLE & DOUBLE DILUTE COAT COLOURS EXPLAINED

By: Sheila Ramsay

Sheila Ramsay — Mon, 06 Feb 2012 19:00:04 +0000

In New Zealand, thankfully the colour issue is not an issue. We have such a small genepool that fripperies such as colour cannot be afforded. Here is the website for a sabino liver chestnut Connemara stallion. Brennan is a 5 year old who is out competing in open dressage (against horses), Crossiebeg Brennan from New Zealand Maybe you guys should start looking at importing frozen semen?? And no he is not my pony. When he was a foal he was described by a visitor from Ireland as being 'a beautiful colt, a pity he is such a scandalous colour'. We have several 'scandalous' chestnuts alive and well and breeding here :)

By: Jacqui Lewis

Jacqui Lewis — Fri, 03 Feb 2012 23:54:38 +0000

Why are the Breeders Society considering testing foals for the Dilute Gene?
You can see the birth colour of a foal, so why test?

By: Jacqui Lewis

Jacqui Lewis — Fri, 03 Feb 2012 23:36:07 +0000

An awful lot of breeders In Ireland are misinformed regarding the breeding of true buckskin and Palomino foals, many are under the impression that any cream double dilute to a bay will produce a Buckskin foal, many advertise their creme perlino animals as cremellos, and they have no idea that either perlinos or cremello can still carry grey, until their lovely dun or palomino foal turns grey.
I was looking for a chestnut stallion myself, I would think there should be a few in Ireland, but I will be surprised if they are any classified as Grade 1! If anyone knows of a Grade 1 chestnut in Ireland, please post here!!!
I find it quite embarrassing, to hear the arguements put forward by the Breed Society regarding their rules on colour, and their old fashioned outdated idea that a Connemara pony can be any colour as long as its grey!!!!!! The Dilute Gene on a Black base BUCKSKIN is fine, in fact sought after, but a Dilute gene on a Red base, PALOMINO is’nt, now how nuts is that !!!!! They seem to think that they have moved on and become more forward thinking because very occasionally a BAY gets placed in a show or attains a Grade 1 status at classification.
There is a saying a Good horse or Pony is never a bad colour.
As you stated the developement of unsightly sarcoids (not great if you show) is heightened in greys, with the added risk of them developing into something more sinister.

By: Theresa Philipsen

Theresa Philipsen — Fri, 03 Feb 2012 10:03:24 +0000

It’s not that I actually think that the BECs should be banned, but I see the point in doing so, since BECs crossed with BECs can only produce more BECs, and it would be less than ideal if you ask me, if the BEC colour became the most common colour for the Connemara pony. True, the greys are potentially cancerous, but the BECs are guaranteed yearly burns from the summer sun if you don’t cover them in sunscreen or keep them indoors. I am all for variety of colours in the Connemara, but too many BECs around and too few Bay or Chestnuts or non-diluted greys around would also make the Connemara less versatile with it’s colours. It was the wrong way to go to ban the BECs but I get why they would feel that they had to, as to not make the colour the primary colour for the Connemara. Noting birth colours of the foals would have seemed a better idea if you ask me, but sometimes the buckskin colour can seem more like brown, so even that wouldn’t guarantee no unexpected colour combinations. It’s sad to think of all the potentially good breeding material that was wasted away with the ban, but since it’s in the past now we can’t do much more than work on getting more colours back into the breed. It has to be done cleverly though, we can’t just breed according to colour without thinking of type and conformation.

By: Linda Freedman

Linda Freedman — Thu, 02 Feb 2012 18:02:38 +0000

It was ridiculous to ban BEC’s. I have a BEC filly carrying the grey gene. I was gutted when she tested for grey. If she hadn’t tested positive for the grey gene I would have been 100% guarenteed either a Buckskin or Palomino foal to a Bay or Chestnut sire, finding good BEC Connemara’s isn’t easy, there is one brave stud in the UK concentrating on breeding Buckskins and they breed Buckskin to Buckskin getting the occasional double dilute and the perlino foals are simply gorgeous!! I lovely the cream body and the slightly tangerine/orange mane. I totally regret not having my foal tested before I bought her I so wish I’d got a double dilute without the grey. Try finding a good Bay or Chestnut Connemara sire…very difficult, I wanted to put my filly to a Chestnut Connemara in the hope of a Palomino Connemara part bred around the 15.2 mark and the only ones I can find are a father and son who are 13.2 and 13.3…and that is in the whole of the UK. Connemaras are such versitile talented ponies for both children and smaller adults, it is wicked to deliberately do anything that prevents a variety of colours in a breed, particularly as the faded hair colouring due to the greying gene ends up in the gut and causes cancers. Anyone with a Perlino mare can guarentee a dilute foal if they use a Bay stallion so how ridiculous is it to have people with ‘sought after and acceptable’ common and potentially cancerous grey mares, taking them to a Buckskin sire and crossing their fingers in the hope of a Buckskin foal? As a footnote I bought my filly from Ireland in haste because BEC sportshorse fillies cost thousands due to the guarentees they offer for producing dilutes and guess what, 1/8th of her is Connemara and it’s brought the grey through the generations and threatens my generation of breeding to come…I like greys well enough but I like coloureds, spotted and dilutes more and a grey to those colours makes breeding risky or pointless.

By: Theresa Philipsen

Theresa Philipsen — Wed, 18 Jan 2012 21:51:40 +0000

Heather:

I am sorry if it sounded like I wanted to say that two dilutes will always produce a BEC, I am Danish, so English is only second to my maternal language, mistakes are bound to occur on occasion, as well as stupid autocorrects from my iPad (:

What I mean to say with my comment is that a BEC made from parents where either one or both are buckskin (or dun as it is still called in Connemara societies) are more like to be perlino rather than cremello because chestnut is recessive and is needed in double to make the BEC a cremello, where there is guarantee for a palomino when crossed with a chestnut. I don’t know if it cleared up my point at all, I hope so (:

By: Heather

Heather — Fri, 25 Nov 2011 16:07:31 +0000

Theresa,

I have a chestnut mare from a palomino stallion and a dun mare. The buckskin mare obviously had the recessive chestnut gene. The percentage chance of a BEC is I think one in four in that cross and I think the same for a palomino or a buckskin. So, by no means crossing two dilutes will necessarily produce a BEC. The best way of breeding a buckskin is a BEC crossed with bay, and even then if there is chestnut in the backgrounds of both, you can get palomino.

Heather

By: Jacqui Lewis

Jacqui Lewis — Fri, 25 Nov 2011 09:38:42 +0000

You’re Right Theresa, and of course many of the foals that are purchased as Dun or Palomino, very often Grey out, only a true dilute that has been tested negative for grey used on a bay or chestnut will guarantee progeny of true Dun or Palomino coat colouration, it is very important that breeders state the birth colour of their foals on their application for Registration, and not what they expect the foals colour to be at maturity.

By: Theresa Philipsen

Theresa Philipsen — Wed, 23 Nov 2011 08:30:41 +0000

Great article, just a small comment though. A BEC does not always produce a palomino when bred to a chestnut. The term BEC covers three colours; Cremello (chestnut base), Perlino (bay base) and Smokey Cream (Black base). A BEC by to buckskin parents will be more likely to be Perlino and therefore on bay base rather than chestnut and therefore it will be likely to produce a buckskin rather than palomino when bred to a chestnut. An example is Skærgårdens Lost Love, by the Perlino mare Fiona II and the chestnut stallion Skærgårdens First Night, she came out buckskin. Pictures of foal, mother and father Can be seen at http://www.skaergaarden.dk, though I don’t think there is an English version of their page.

By: Sorrel Lambton

Sorrel Lambton — Fri, 11 Nov 2011 03:07:49 +0000

Thanks Jacqui,
I totally agree! Before 1960 BEC’s were often in the show ring both placed and winning. Why the BEC was considered not a real connemara pony, to be excluded for so many years, I will never understand the reasoning behind the committee at that time and the ones that subsequently followed. The BEC ban which continued for too long has created long term adverse results in the connemara gene pool – not to mention the demise of many coat colors in favour of the grey which we all know is the most inclined to develop cancer! It is time for connemara breeders to wake up and become more educated about the origins of the ‘pure bred’ connemara pony. Like many good breeds their origin is a combination of breeds which have been chosen to enhance the native stock – commonly known as the ‘Hobby’. If the society could bring themselves to instigate compulsary testing and disclosure of breeding stallions genetic possibilities then breeders would be better informed as to the possible choices. I must thank Margo Watson for sending me her report on BEC’s from the USA which not only spurned me on to write the article for the greater knowledge of all but has also given me a life long quest for the inclusion and appreciation of the benifits of the BEC! The BEC is the equivalent of a blue eyed human – just a little more light sensitive and nothing more…